Where have all the real radio people gone? The ones that have been bitten by the bug? Darwin PD Phil Brandel has had some bad experiences lately when trying to hire passionate radio people. He has several positions available in Darwin that he just can’t seem to fill. What happened to moving where the jobs are, always climbing up the pyramid, always wanting to work in a bigger and better station, asks Phil. His views are supported by several readers who have added comments at the bottom of this article, including: “You are so right. The attitude of young people today has made finding good new staff who have ambition and want to learn, incredibly difficult,” and “Phil has hit the nail on the head – I have had a similar situation recently.”
My first job in radio was doing afternoons in Mt Isa, when I got the job I was thrilled too bits. I put all my worldly possessions in the back of my Holden Gemini and drove from Sydney to Mt Isa in four days to start my new job on the princely sum of 21k a year. After 12 months I started sending out “tapes” to bigger stations, I got a job in Goulburn, so I packed up my Gemini, drove for four days and started in Goulburn. This is what you did back in the day.
I have several positions available in Darwin that I just can’t seem to fill. I remember back to my Mt Isa days when the PD would always have five to six “tapes” in his top drawer from people wanting a job. I haven’t received a single unsolicited aircheck from a jock since I’ve been in Darwin. I would love to receive an aircheck from a small country station, asking for a critique or just to say hi and that they would like to be considered for any future positions.
These days the only airchecks I get are when we place a job advertisement and most of those are from Irish and American jocks, although I think this says more about their respective countries economy than having a real passion for wanting to work in Australian Radio.
Where have all the real radio people gone? The ones that have been bitten by the bug?
The last couple of interviews that I’ve done went something like this, (these are from people who rang or emailed me after I placed a job advertisement).
Interview 1 Me “So why did you leave your last job?”
Newsreader 1 – ” I didn’t like getting up early, it stressed me too much”
(She was applying for the position of breakfast newsreader)
Interview 2 – Me (on the phone) – So you want to work in Darwin?
Announcer – “Not really I just applied because my old PD told me too”
Interview 3 – got an email the day after an interview, saying he wasn’t interested in the role, because it meant doing live shifts.
Interview 4 – announcer “Yeah mate I wanna get back into radio and I’m willing to move, but not that far”
Interview 5 – announcer “Yeah I wanna job in radio, but I just got offered a job driving a van at my dads courier company”
What happened to moving where the jobs are, always climbing up the pyramid, always wanting to work in a bigger and better station?
A mate of mine used to drive from Sydney to Bathurst every weekend just so he could do some weekend shifts in Bathurst.
Are we to blame? Did creativity and passion leave the building when we installed Nexgen and started taking networking and voicetracks from all over the country? Localism be damned, thus creating a vacuum where the young hungry jocks used to be? Or was it when the big networks turned their backs on announcers and started hiring sports stars, comedians and big brother wannabes who didn’t have to do the hard yards.
Or is Gen Y so wrapped up in instant gratification that they don’t want to do a few years in the bush to make their career happen?
Have we become so PC and OH&S that radio is no longer fun?
I once drove from Goulburn to Port Macqaurie and back in one weekend so I could have a weekend interview with the PD.
Now I’m a realist enough to know that Darwin isn’t for everyone and that we are just a stepping stone to a bigger station, but where are all the staff from the smaller feeder stations? Isn’t there someone in Charleville or Parks or Mildura, who wants a career in radio and is willing to move to a bigger station to make that career happen?
Where have all the real radio people gone? If your still out there give me a call sometime.
Phil Brandel
Group Program Director Hot 100.1, Mix 104.9, Top Country 92.3 Darwin
08 89419999
Phil has hit the nail on the head - I have had a similar situation recently, I have had applications from the USA 2 from the Philippines and 3 from Germany, certainly my station isn't as remote as Darwin however - no one seems to want to move from the cities or anywhere for that matter. Maybe it has something to do with our craft being sold short and the long line of non radio personalities who are chased for figures rather than commitment.
I remember in the day working 6 days a week and of course on your day off having to do a promo ob or something similar - it was the business and we loved it.
Maybe stations where ever we are should look more long term rather than a stepping stone - I have noticed the trend to put it out that "Come work for us as a stepping stone to something better - because our last man has gone onto better things"
Darwin is one of the most dynamic places in this country - I know I have done that all the way from Perth as a mere 19 year old - it was just a cyclone that moved me on - I was committed to a station that was committed to its audience and city. I worked with a crew that many had been there for 6,7 8 years. We had to work 6 days a week and often a 7th because some one slipped in the mud a Fanny Bay - but then as now we do it because we love the craft the mystery of radio.
Real Radio People - Radio needs you again - come out come out where ever you are - long bring you tomorrow.
Phil,
You are so right. The attitude of young people today has made finding good new staff who have ambition and want to learn, incredibly difficult. As a rule, they don't want to work hard, they don't want to work nights or weekends and they expect a salary similar to that of the Chief Executive. They're not all like that, but many, regrettably, are.
I work with a remarkably successful team of on air people. They all work massively long hours to achieve what they do. Yet when I advertise for staff to assist these outstanding broadcasters I get demands even before the interview has started.
Recently I interviewed a 24 year old university graduate with no work experience who told me straight out, 'I won't be working for you for less than 120K. I know what you pay people at radio stations like this.' When I advised this girl that in fact, she wouldn't be working for me at all, she told me she was going to complain to somebody about my attitude! These days this sort of mind-set appears to be the norm. It's really quite sad.
When most candidates arrive for an interview I generally ask them for a description of our 2 Sydney stations. More often than not they don't know we operate 2 stations. They can't tell me anything about the on air line ups. They haven't bothered to look at our web sites. Because of these things alone, they will never work for me. When I explain that to them, they rarely seem to understand!
Getting my first job in radio on a salary of $27 a week was like a dream come true. Working in this industry now, after many years of moving around, getting fired, working wierd and socially unacceptable hours, cleaning the kitchen, wrtiting copy, working at OB's in freezing conditions and so on, it's still a dream come true. I love this business.
Anyone who's worked in this business for more than a couple of years is probably infected by the bug, however these days finding people who dream the dream to come and work in radio is a massive challenge. Today, radio seems to be regarded as just another job, rather than the realization of a goal that few will ever experience.
But take heart Phil They are out there. It's just another challenge.
The passionate radio freaks you're looking for, we're still here Phil ... I've done the back lot tour, even spent time as an engineer just to get a foot in the door.
Perhaps if PD's actually took the time to write back to people when they do send airchecks, or perhaps actually answer the phone call from a young jock then maybe people wouldn't give up so easily. Sadly the industry has done this to themselves with the introduction of networking and automation many years ago.
The poor pay and conditions in the regional markets also puts people off and reduces the talent pool. Finally don't get me started on the major networks constantly hiring tv people and celebs for their breakfast shows....seriously the whole thing is a mess and we wonder why the pool is small. Tip for Mr Brandel, have a listen to stations online and then pick up the phone and call a jock,he will be chuffed you "poached" him. Just don't mention the $30k salary straight away.
Sadly pay conditions and the hassle of moving to some remote place puts a lot of people off.
I am coming up to 10 years in commercial radio, 20 years overall. It was one of my dreams as a kid, but sadly the experience of penny pinching heirarchy, the fact I now have to choose which bills to pay first, and call for endless extensions on bills to get them paid, abusive sales reps and clients and the expectation of more more more but not receiving an ounce of recognition, not even a thanks, has really put me off. I highly doubt that I will be in the game for much longer.
I love what radio can do, I love the medium, but sadly I have grown tired of being run into the ground. My health has suffered, both physically and mentally. I also look at other family members who do less hours and less intense jobs, who take home double I do a week, and start to wonder whether I have wasted 10 years of my working life with very little to show for it.
ahh but PR according to all those on the $160,000 paypackets that now whinge about the fact that there are no real radio people would say that you are not a real radio person because you are not prepared to do it for the love of it ...hell you are paid min wage but you get to work in radio...that's the big pay off...oh but you will need to work six days and have the axe hanging over your head constantly while the sales reps drive nice luxury cars and you wonder if your 1979 Datsun will get you there for the breakfast shift.
Glad I don't have to deal with those issues anymore. My advice, join the ABC or get a paid job in community radio, these organisations will look after better.
I get tired of people talking about the good old days where they all worked 6 days a week and got paid bugger all but it was sooo worth it because they worked in radio. Sorry, but it just a job, a great job that few a fortunate to have but lets keep it in perspective, this is great when you are 21, but not so great when you are forty and have a wife and kids. People....radio is not a cult even though at times it behaves that way.
I lived in Brisbane, completed a university degree, then spent a year in retail while applying for jobs all over the place, and more often than not hearing nothing back. I was extremely excited when i got my first interview, and travelled to Lismore with my mum and sister to attend. I didn't get that job but three weeks later i was offered another position.
After that, I moved to Orange with the hopes of joining a network where i could learn and grow, but for all my asking and applying, and even putting myself through a MD course, i was effectively forgotten about.
I then moved to Jindabyne where I was allowed to grow and take the reigns of the station there, which i enjoyed immensly...until winter - when i realised i'm truly a Queenslander.
I think there is a huge inequality within the industry between announcers and sales staff. Sure, it's not all about money, but lets face it - it certainly helps. And in an age where regional announcers aren't just announcers - they're also promotions, programmers, producers, newsreaders, and even admin staff, yet we get paid the bare minimum. While sales stuff get phone allowances, fuel allowances, monthly and quarterly bonuses, and thats on top of their base and commisions.
I know in my current position, there are days when i start at 5am for breakfast, and can still be there at 5,6 and 7pm voicetracking my shift, and making sure everyone elses shifts are timed and segued properly. There was a week where i was doing live breakfast, music director and afternoon news. I design print ads, produce imaging, maintain the website and social media, help create and write nice promotions and sales props, set up and run OBs and cut short my Christmas holidays to make sure i was in town to cover the recent floods. I do these things because i love it, but it would be really if the pay packet reflected what we actually do, rather
than the title.
So yes, there are real radio people out there, but many are becoming disillusioned.
Maybe radio just isn't seen as cool anymore. Young people these days have other career aspirations, and whilst radio is hard work, yet very satisfying when the results arrive...Gen Y has a different attitude than that of earlier generations and on the main don't want to commit to something that may intrude on their social time..or involve hard yards. How many Gen Y (and some older) jocks these days don't give a rats about the team or station, and are just out to cut a deal that only benefits themselves...eg, trying to get off working weekends or not assisting in the heavy lifting that goes on behind the scenes....they will come in late..go home early..goof off when in the building...whine a lot..and barely notice the hard pressed MD or so on doing a 14 hour day. There are some great Gen Y's around though...and in the right culture that demands accountability they can rise to the occasion...however, in weak cultures...they will often run a-muck...and get away with it!
As a young person trying to enter the industry, my experience of applying for jobs in regional areas or cold calling has been largely that you never hear anything back at all - not even a courtesy email notifying you that your application was received. when you are willing to commit hours upon hours of your time to volunteer work and move away from friends/family for a job that pays less than what you would be earning at McDonalds and still get that kind of response it's no suprise that "gen Yers" become pretty disillusioned pretty quickly.
Yeah, where *are* those people who are willing to start work while it's still dark for $25-30k per year?
I can understand the strategy that low pay helps sort out the 'wanna-be radio stars' from the truly dedicated star-struck radio lifers, but honestly, all radio networks in Australia - *all* of them - need to get realistic if they want decent people... this bullsh*t about 'lower cost of living in regs, therefore lower salary' is simply disingenuous.
As the saying goes: 'If you pay peanuts you get monkeys' - and it seems to me, Phil, that you're only getting monkeys applying at this stage.
So, what *would* prevent people from wanting to move to Darwin? It's not the lifestyle, that's fabulous, and its reputation is building all the time as a great place to live - so it must be something else...... ?
'Radio people' seems like an outdated concept to me, just like having a 'radio voice'. I want to work with creative, energetic, motivated people, who have a life outside of radio. Not radio nerds.
And people still travel across the country for jobs... when it's with the right company.
The glamour of working in radio is nothing like it was in the 70's and 80's , you don't get as much media coverage as you used to get,in the bush the money paid is still no where near the average aussie wage.
We're having trouble find a copywriter /announcer at the moment.
Maybe the talent pool is gone, most shifts in rural Australia, have a live brekky show and thats it, maybe there's just no one left . We have clients writing their own ads,some even voice them,they're awful.
Lets put this into perspective.
Lets say Darwin pays staff $36-38 thousand a year. Not bad money right? But lets not forget Darwin is one of the most expensive places in the country to live.
A 1 room studio apartment can set you back $310-350 per week, that is over half of your weekly wage gone. Now lets talk bills, because you always have the aircon on due to the heat, you can expect a bill for your overpriced 1 room studio apartment of around $525 per quarter. Then phone/internet/mobile and if you drive, car expenses.
Not much is left, Darwin's lifestyle is great, a party town, but you don't have any money to enjoy it.
Stations need to stop paying just the award rate and look at cost of living. Radio people are out there but if you can't afford to live, why would they come.
Also, seeing so many people leave since Phil took on the role of the PD, it would also worry people. Its such a big move to make with the worry of what the boss is like.
The lack of interest by employees (or straight lack of employees) reflects the lack of people management and development by managers in the industry. Leaving radio for another media perspective, I'm sorry I didn't make the shift sooner.
I was excited by radio straight out of uni and experienced many roles in the past ten years, aspiring for more. But crap pay and unrealistic expectations throughout takes it's toll. The radio market has brought the lack of talent pool upon itself with extensive networking and automation.
Also, there seems to be a gap larger then Kyle Sandilands' ego between what makes a good manager and what makes a good radio station executive.
I believe that the problem has been generated by the accountants who seem to be running radio, instead of radio people running radio. Radio is much more than a businus and in a way, the purest form of business. If you build it, the money will come. The stars of radio today are the sales reps who can sell un-listenable stations. The radio stars have been lost to automation and networking. The listeners want to listen to people on the radio, but now they are forced to listen to a recording. Is that our future? If it is, why would anyone want to be a part?
Phil, couldn't agree more! I did the country rounds and ended up back home in Melbourne. But having said that, sadly times have changed. Going out 'to the bush to learn you craft' is no longer on the agenda. Then there is the issue of trying to survive on what country radio now pays (with the cost of living). Then there is also the issue of finding a station that isn't networked 20 hours a day! There are issues here on both sides of the fence....
This article makes me sad and mad at the same time... As someone who is a real radio person, who did the hard yards at a regional station, community station and even a metro station, i returned from my regional gig and couldnt even get an interview! I was told I had too much experience for a junior role in a metro station, but not enough experience to get in front of the PDs. Willing to move anywhere, it was frustrating, and after 6 months of applying for radio jobs, I gave up the dream I'd been actively pursuing for 6 years!! Still miss it, and still wish I could get back in, but now i'm frightened to apply again after so much rejection. (FYI my regional show was number 1 for 2 years... and still no love!)
I began working in commercial radio in 1982. It was a regional class station and it was prety clear from the get-go that I would be not only doing my regular job but also find myself obliged to do unpaid work as well. If I contrasted my situation with my contemporaries I noticed that it was unknown for most of them to work unpaid for even half an hour.
For some reason, award or no award, radio station operators have always believed that the "magic" would compensate us more than adequately for any work that we did outside our agreements. The other situation that was manifestly obvious to me at this time and has pretty much held true for every station I have ever worked for is that radio as a business provides a very meagre return on investmet. All radio stations are poor, almost to the point of being charity cases and the fact that you're being paid at all is a small miracle. This, of course, was and still is, utter bu11sh!t.
It was an enjoyable environment though and for all of you who doubt that radio was more fun in the 80's and 90's I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it was. Most stations had more staff and the atmosphere was much more upbeat. The rot set in in the late 80's with the recession. Accountants took over the top management of stations and networks. Radio took on 'Chainsaw' Al Dunlap's "downsizing" idea with gusto and in later years when Dunlap retracted the entire concept saying "I was wrong, how can you grow your business if you're losing key employees?" Radio didn't get it.
As the years have progresed I have had reason to work in a country station or two and seen the utterly punishing hours worked by people in these understaffed, badly run businesses. Is this what you need "passionate" radio people for? Do you need them to work 80 hours a week for 40 hours pay? Try that in any other business! On top of that, the pay that you get for your bloated working week is almost laughably low, especially in regional and country stations.
I remember a chat I had with the PD at my current station a while back regarding running costs and how they have changed. When I began in radio, it was almost unheard of for a station to run without a technician, many had two. Every week there were consumables for tape machines and other costs that now, thanks to computer production and playout systems, no longer exist. No production assistant in cart prep and practically all of the announcers have another role off air that used to be a full time position for another employee. Yet still stations cry poor,offer urealistically low wages and oblige staff to work unpaid for hours a week. What a great industry.
I could rattle on about all this for ever but in closing I'd just like to draw a comparison to a business run by a friend of mine. My mate runs a very successful PA hire and installation business and has a dedicated staff of around twelve. The work is sometimes very physically demanding and unsurprisingly involves a lot of unsociable hours. Jobs rarely run to neat shifts of eight hours either. My friend would never conceive of obliging his staff to work unpaid. Every hour worked is an hour paid. Why? Because he needs every one of his experienced staff to keep his business running. One missing staff member could throw months of pre-planned work into chaos. Not so in a radio station. Just because the staff levels are inadequate doesn't mean there's less work to get done. The work is just spread out to the nearest person who will have had to learn a skill on the job to cover a missing staff member and as long as that person bears up with two or three roles, everything is just tickety-boo.
Good thing AFTRS chugs out a new class of eager young kids every year eh?
The answer is simple. Offer more money and at the same time, not a station full of equipment that is always breaking down.
My last 2 stations were like this and it was very difficult to use a play out system that was always crashing and an editor/internet computer that was next to un-usable.
GM & PD didn’t want to know about it. I got blamed instead. Hello people skills?
Sales people get all the money and on air staff are expected to do more multi tasking than a teenager who works part time at a fast food place.
It's no surprise that the radio people aren’t coming through. All of a sudden getting paid 70k to drive a truck is not a bad idea.
What does Phil need to do? Pay more than 35k, upgrade the station and treat your staff like gold, make them feel special, arouse enthusiasm and don’t hire bitchy prima donna’s that will drag the rest of the team down.
That last point is a big one........a really big one.
These are all points that owners of the family owned regional networks don't want to hear and I don't understand the point of writing this article as nothing is going to change their minds.
Hey Radio guy not sure where you got your numbers from? I live in a 1 bedroom studio apartment in the city and I don't pay anywhere near that in rent. My last electricity bill was only about $250 for the quarter.
Also in Darwin we pay above the award rate and most Jocks have the whole weekend off (except for OB's)
As a wise PD once said to me, "If you want a well paid, secure job go work in a bank"
But everyone can stop worrying, I will be announcing new appoinments soon.
Cheers
Phil Brandel Hot100/Mix1049
P.S Why are some of you afraid to use your real name? Why are you hiding behind a pseudonym/
I read with interest regarding Phil Brandel's story.
Unfortunately I am not of the same belief.
My Husband and I returned to Australia after spending 4 years in New Zealand. My Husband has a solid radio career spanning 20 years he has so much knowledge under his belt that he would leave these young pups for dead, and no he is not ready for the retirement home. After countless job applications sent to PD's here in Australia only to be either ignored, or told no your not what we are looking for.
He was not trying to gain employment in a metro market he knew he would have to start in a regional/provincial market and work up, he is so passionate about radio he was making his own radio shows at home at the age of nine, radio is the only career he has been committed to all his life.
He did apply for a position in Darwin sometime back before Phil was on board and was told in no uncertain terms "you will not cut it in Australia" He is now working in Muswellbrook - (On air, Copy, Assist: Production, back up PD) and loving it.
I don't always think it is the applicant I think we need to look at some of the "young pups" that are put into PD roles that really don't have the experience or the people skills to see good talent when it hits them in the face.
'As a wise PD once said to me, "If you want a well paid, secure job go work in a bank"'
That's the kind of out-dated thinking a lot of people are taking issue with I think Phil. Why/how is that statement acceptable? That's not entirely encouraging to hear from a leader of aspiring radio talent, and it's certainly not the attitude of management where I work.
Radio has changed, media has changed, and is only going to keep changing. As long as you're working hard coming up with innovative, refreshing content/ideas that are on target, I think you're more than entitled to a 'well paid secure job'.
Hi Phil
My figures are based.on fact. Why don't we use our real names? Because by being anonymous we can highlight the issues about an industry that quite a few of us still work in.
"P.S Why are some of you afraid to use your real name? Why are you hiding behind a pseudonym"
Phil,
You should already know that we want to protect our identities because it might cause trouble for some of us who want to speak out, especially those who still work in your network.
" 'As a wise PD once said to me, "If you want a well paid, secure job go work in a bank"' "
So you say that to your interviewees and then wonder why they are suddenly not interested? This rings alarm bells with me. I don't think I would want to work for you if that's what your mind set is.
You say you pay above award wage? How about putting this in your job adverts? Also, 38k, even 40k is not much compared with the average Aussie wage of $1200 per week. Even though your rent appears to be a little cheaper, it is still very hard to find a cheap place in Darwin competing with all those public servants. A quick look at realestate.com.au confirms this. Take into account that most people are away from friends and family and will want to be able to afford to fly back once every couple of months or so.
The fact that you are a main boss living in a 1 bedroom studio apartment for so called cheap rent tells me that not even you are getting all that well paid by the owners of Darwin.
So how much exactly do you pay your announcers if it is so good?
The following information would be buzzing around the heads of many young jocks before applying for a job in Darwin so long as there are good people in the industry like me advising them of who to and who NOT to work for based on our experience.
In recent times (edited by moderator), you have lost a Journo, a work day announcer on Hot100, 2 breakfast announcers from mix and 1 from hot. I’m sure there are more people on this board that will confirm that info if the recent job adverts are anything to go by.
Anybody see the elephant in the room?
I once drove 6 hours for a job interview it was for nights in a rural town , i didn't get the job, reason, i was doing brekky at another station and the PD thought i wouldn't stick around long, all up a 12 hour trip. All that way to be told that. Radio needs to start looking after its staff, otherwise, you'll have AFTR's graduate running the show after a couple of years.
Also PD's if someone applies for a job have the courtesy to let them know they didn't get it and rather the employ has been ex reality tv stars and retired footy players,give genuine radio people a go
Well there you go Phil, you said it perfectly, and that my friend is the reason there is a talent glut. With that attitude you deserve to get all you get or in this case....nothing, no airchecks of value.
I have worked for your network and I would be interested to know what you define as above award wage, are we talking $2000 a year?
I left regional radio five years ago to work in Sydney radio and I spoke to a friend going back into the industry to work for your network and he told me the PD told him they paid award but then excitedly told him that if he works 6 days then he could make 40k !! Here's the funny thing, I don't work half as hard as I did in the country and I earn twice and a bit more than my last regional radio gig...go figure.
I would also like to add that I think Phil is clearly not getting it.
The comments overall express a disgust with an industry that only rewards sales reps and GM's. Phil you need to take this argument to Janet Cameron and say "hey Janet, this is a big radio station here in Darwin, I need x amount of dollars to get people to come here" Reality is that station owners are about maximising profits and until there is competition in regionals then you can can forget about ever getting decent pay.
Ha! Ha! $40K.... that was a lot of money in 1989!
Seriously, before you sign anything, make yourself aware of the award and pay particular attention to the grade, overtime and allowances sections. Ask the employer what grade/position you are being employed at.
http://www.alliance.org.au/resources/media/
Look for the Broadcasting and Recorded Entertainment award.
With your contract, never sign away your award rights unless you are being paid substantially over the award rate for your position or grade. Dont forget, an extra $1K a year only translates to an extra $15 in your pocket each week.
Discuss overtime and multi tasking at the interview and make sure that any wording in the employment agreement specifically outlines these duties and the conditions that go with them.
Don't worry that holding your employer to their agreement with you, in a businesslike manner, will blacklist you. If it does then you are dealing with an unprofessional organisation and one to avoid. Tell your friends.
Oh Dear, seems another one has had enough at Mix/Hot 100 in Darwin..Jeez..how could you turn your back on the great money they pay there!!
I have friends that work at the Local radio station in Darwin for both Mix and Hot. There is a girl there (edited) who I'm told has had no previous radio background but we have heard her Ob's and she is a natural. Why doesn't the Radio station look at hiring on Locals with Natural talent instead of looking for radio people with years of experience which doesn't mean their the best. (Edited) Why look to hire people outside of the NT who don't know the town, people or can even pronounce the bloody suburbs correctly????? Now that Rick and Lisa are finished up, let's see what non local radio fill in will be put in place.We vote for the local men and women to be on air....why keep hiring people from out of town....GIVE THE LOCALS THE WORK PHIL!