When podcasts were still burgeoning, I had lunch with a pioneer in the space, who said:

“Podcasts are what radio would look like if it was run by women.”

This was reiterated earlier this month during sessions held at SXSW Sydney. Myf Warhurst said that part of the process of her new podcast The Moment was ‘getting out of her own way’ and quietening her mind which kept trying to wrap up and head to the news like in her radio days rather than just being present in the conversation she was having. Mitch Churi said he would do a cracker 15 minute interview with a band and radio would edit it down to four, ‘sucking all the life out of it’, and Ryan Jon Dunn said that the reason he started the successful Toni and Ryan podcast with Toni Lodge in the first place was to help Toni get a better job in the industry than her then behind the scenes one because, “Toni is not the laugh track, she’s the main event.”

My first reaction, like many others as the ARN Upfronts were being rolled out last Wednesday, was “All those women, gone.” Being upset and angry will not make a lick of difference at this point in time, but how ARN’s decisions look to the Australian public, women AND men, those working in the industry and to listeners and fans of the people who have lost their jobs, needs to be taken upstairs to the third umpire. For the record, ARN did also announce a women’s sports audio network at the Upfront which felt like, to continue my own analogies, a goosestep to deflect away from the main event’s ‘women belong on the sideline’ theme.

Let’s start in Brisbane. In most workplaces when you apply and then miss out on a job opportunity, you can feel some comfort that, usually, the best person, the most qualified and experienced with something you didn’t have yourself, got the role. It galled me that Craig ‘Lowie’ Low, who didn’t even mention his radio background on his LinkedIn profile before it was taken down over the weekend, and who hasn’t lived or worked in Australia or on radio for many years, has just been offered a metro breakfast show on KIIS 97.3. What message does that send to the students completing their Graduate Diploma in Radio and Podcasting at AFTRS?

Seven people lost their jobs in Brisbane to make way for Lowie. Five women, including breakfast presenter Robin Bailey and the two men, her co-hosts Kip Wightman and Corey Oates. I lived in Brisbane for a decade and thought I would see out my days there. I went back a couple of years ago to find that Brisbane had moved on without me. Robin, Kip and Corey ARE Brisbane. As are Ash, Luttsy and Nikki on Nova 106.9, Stav, Abby and Matt on B105, Loretta and Craig at the ABC, Marto, Margaux and Dan at Triple M and absolutely Corey Parker and Ian Healy at SENQ. I am fully aware that ARN has shown previously that an outsider (Lowie is originally from the Gold Coast) can win over a city, with Christian O’Connell in Melbourne, but this hits differently because a Brisbane-centric team, and all the women’s voices at KIIS 97.3 across the weekdays, all of them with the exception of Jackie O in the Hour of Power, a replay out of Sydney, have gone to make way for Lowie, a selection with no evidence of being the best or even the right person for the city or the job.

Adelaide. The current hosts of Mix 102.3, now Gold 102.3 Adelaide, Max Burford and Hayley Pearson were apparently blindsided (subscription required) at their sacking in the lead up to the Upfronts. They were a new team this year, in a competitive market, and consistent in the ratings. It was speculated that it would be Ben, Liam and Belle (Ben Harvey, Liam Stapleton and Belle Jackson) announced to replace them. The Nova Network trio had relocated to Adelaide to be closer to Ben and Liam’s families and been sacked only a couple of weeks later. It was the second biggest surprise of the Upfronts, behind Lowie, that it would just be Ben and Liam in Adelaide.

Some background on the gracious and immensely talented Belle Jackson and what she stands for to women wanting to make it in the broadcast industry. Belle is from Melbourne and first met Ben and Liam when she was employed as their show producer at triple j at the end of 2016. The boys were picked up by Nova in their hometown of Adelaide, taking their breakfast show to No 1, before getting the even bigger audience of Nova 100 breakfast in Melbourne. So much a part of the show was Belle that in Melbourne it became Ben, Liam and Belle. The multi ACRA winning trio were replaced by Jase and Lauren, when they lost their KIIS 101.1 gig to Kyle and Jackie O, and shifted to networked Late Drive, before losing their jobs in September.

No mention of Belle was made at the Upfronts. It was she who shared on Instagram that she was back to producer Belle, saying:

“The last 3 years have been short, sweet and a total dream.
I’ve loved every second of being on air, everyday I knew I was so lucky.”

I will try to be just as gracious and simply say that Belle, who moved from her hometown to Adelaide to stay working with her boys, as she called them, and has been the lynchpin of that show for nine years, deserves better because she is one of our industry’s best. This moment felt like it was back to the kitchen from having a seat at the table for all of us.

Also departing, although it hasn’t been explicitly stated, is The Pick Up with Laura Byrne and Brittany Hockley, which aired across the KIIS Network from 3-4pm weekdays. Show producer is the highly regarded Grace Garde who, when Mitch Churi was unceremoniously dumped from the show last year, and had gone on to create his own chat show with Acast, has joined him there as a co-host too. They have been replaced by Kent Smallzy Small who has brought his former Nova producer Zach La Cava with him. Smallzy has also a 7-9pm weekdays national night shift too.

Smallzy’s resume probably would suggest he was the right person for the job but the dropping of Laura and Brittany, and their highly successful Life Uncut podcast which has subsequently been picked up by SCA, was, according to an ARN spokesperson, to “allow us to focus on new iHeart Originals launching in 2026.” Laura and Brittany and their female skewed radio show and podcast doesn’t ‘fit’.

Leading the news of the new suite iHeart Originals is a podcast from Christian O’Connell who I’ve found to this point to be good at reading people and the room. Christian’s Gold Network breakfast show will expand from Melbourne into Sydney in 2026, replacing Jonesy and Amanda, Brendan Jones and Australia’s most trusted radio talent Amanda Keller, who are shifting to National drive. Christian’s podcast is Follow the Call described as ‘Christian O’Connell helps his 21-year-old daughter Ruby navigate life after university and discover her calling’ and, after all of the above, I read the blurb as yet another example of ARN demonstrating that a woman needs a man to give her directions and show her the way. 

At the start of this year Marty Sheargold ‘mutually agreed to part ways’ with radio network SCA and Triple M for comments he made about the Matildas and women’s sports in general. Worse though were comments he made the day after. He was in significant back pain and had been loaned a heat pack by his executive producer Whitney Plowman. Whitney had the heat pack on hand to be able to continue working and manage her own endometriosis pain. Marty announced about endo:

“Controversial opinion. It’s something made up,” declaring endometriosis and its myriad of symptoms, including life and work affecting pain, was not real. But Marty’s back pain definitely was. I hope his daughters said to him later, ‘WTF Dad. How could you?’

This demonstration of an implicit bias, is why different genders, cultures, life experiences, sexual orientations and preferences must be seen and heard in the media. You might not understand endometriosis but 50% of the population will, and empathise.

Whatever road you’ve walked you will have experienced someone else who hasn’t walked in your shoes, belittling or disregarding your own view or situation. While Lowie, Smallzy, Ben and Liam will all likely say that there are women involved with the show, and contributing to the content, ultimately what makes it to air, what they feel comfortable talking about, starts and ends with them. It’s their company and boardroom. We have been placed back in reception, in production, in our longer format and not yet financially viable as a full time option podcasts.

For many who read this I am preaching to the converted. But if you’ve come this far with me because your friend, partner, sister, daughter, mum or other significant woman in your life has asked you to read it, imagine if all you heard on radio was women? Our stuff, our business, our bodies, relationships, feelings and aspirations?

Imagine calling up about lowering of the age that you can be tested for prostate cancer, only to be told that it wasn’t relevant to the hosts, or worse. Imagine never hearing yourself through people you like, admire, sometimes disagree with but trust to represent you.

Can you?

Examples of other radio networks ensuring women’s voices are present on breakfast radio:

Emma Chow, SCA  – At the start of this year Jimmy & Nath (Jimmy Smith and Nathan Roye) were joined by Emma Chow for Sydney’s 2DAY FM Breakfast. Jimmy and Nath had been working together as a duo for a decade. Emma had worked with Mike E (Mike Etheridge) together at the network for 13 years. While this duo now trio combination was perhaps not the preferred alternative for all concerned, SCA chose to make sure Emma, a young mum, more broadly represented the network’s 25-54 ‘audience that matters’.

Nikki Osborne, Nova Entertainment – When golden girl Susie O’Neill announced she was going to leave Brisbane’s Nova 106.9 breakfast show after six years Nova could have simply kept the show as Ash and Luttsy (Ash Bradnam and David “Luttsy” Lutteral) but they brought in Nikki Osborne to join the boys and the show has been No 1 in the ratings this year. Susie has remained with the network too, covering survey breaks with Matt Baseley and Mel Tracina.

Cat Lynch, SCA – Triple M Sydney started this year with the new team of Beau, Tarsh and Woodsy, Beau Ryan, Natarsha Belling and Aaron Woods. Tarsh left after only a few weeks and instead of leaving it as the two former NRL boys, the show anchor Cat Lynch was named to join the lineup proper.

Jen Seyderhelm is a writer, editor and podcaster for Radioinfo. Email; [email protected]. Main image – Clockwise from the left Belle Jackson, Brittany Hockley and Laura Byrne, Robin Bailey and Hayley Pearson.