Make every moment about your listeners – Dave Charles talks to Valerie Geller, author of Beyond Powerful Radio

Dave Charles, CEO of Media RESULTS Inc. talks to Valerie Geller, author of the newly published updated edition of Beyond Powerful Radio: An Audio Communicator’s Guide to the Digital World.

Dave Charles:  Your latest book focuses on digital and podcasts. What were your key takeaways in authoring your latest book?

Valerie Geller: If there is ONE key takeaway it is this: Make every moment about your listeners.

How you get, keep and grow audiences is one of the core messages of this new edition of Beyond Powerful Radio. It’s basically a cookbook for anyone who wants to create compelling content, and develop into a more powerful communicator, whether they broadcast, podcast or have to give a wedding toast.

The previous edition came out in 2011, and of course, much has happened in the past 15 years. This new one has added chapters on podcasting, social media, artificial intelligence, much more on becoming a more powerful storyteller and working across all  platforms. It’s filled with ideas that work to develop personalities and create engaging content that inform, entertain, inspire, persuade and connect with audiences.

It’s also filled with techniques to write, create, and  produce news, interview powerfully, and how to produce a winning show,…plus  chapters on branding, sales and commercials, public service and fundraising, knowing who your audience is, dealing with difficult personalities and conquering creative burnout. There’s a huge chapter on developing talent and airchecking plus show prep and much more.

Radio and podcasting are just delivery systems. This work is about people and life.

The previous book was translated into 9 languages. It works in all these different languages and cultures around the world because it’s not really just a book about radio or podcasting. It’s a book about human communication, connecting and creating community, storytelling and sharing in the struggle to be human, which translate, no matter the culture, no matter the medium.

One of the great joys in writing this book was inviting top experts from around the world, whose experience, knowledge and success is in areas where I do not have expertise, to generously share their wisdom as contributors.

DC:  Your powerful communicator principles is a worthy list for both broadcasters and podcasters.  Take us through your Quick Start list and expand on each for our readers.

VG: Beyond Powerful Radio’s “Quick Start” pages are simple lists. If you go to the table of contents at beyondpowerfulradio.com you’ll find pdf links (to all four lists). These sum up the core of my work and they are the essence of the book in a checklist of guidelines, like a roadmap, proven formulas that anyone can follow.

The Quick Start pages also include Air check Criteria, The Powerful Communicator Principles, Topic Selection Focus tips; how is this topic relevant? So WHAT? How does it matter? How does it matter to you? And how can you make it matter to the audience? How can you make the audience care? Can you find some kind of personal connection to each topic, using your own experiences, then employing compelling storytelling techniques, along with all the other tools in your creative audio “theatre of the mind” toolbox.

There’s a detailed chapter on airchecking and aircheck techniques in the book. I sure wish there was an easier way to grow talent, but I have not yet found one in all my years of doing this work. Most PDs were never taught to aircheck. Poorly executed aircheck sessions can do more harm than good. If a PD knew something was off, and could tell you it didn’t work, or was not good, but couldn’t tell you WHY, or offer solutions to fix it.

In 2000, I wrote an entire book about airchecking called The Powerful Radio Workbook – The Prep, Performance & Post Production Planning. Those aircheck training methods are in the new book. These methods work to grow talent – not just from me, but also from dozens of other top pros.

The essence of airchecking: It’s not what you say. It’s how it lands.

What’s new about producing audio for our digital world, is that audiences have the attention span of a flea. There are a lot of distractions.  To break through, it has to NEVER BE BORING. It has to matter to them, You have to engage with them immediately or you lose them. You can’t afford one “zone out” boring moment, ever.

Here’s a tip:

Before you go on air or open a mic, ask: WIFM? (What’s in it for me?) What’s this for the listener? Why should somebody listen to this? Or, Here’s why you need to listen to this…

Then the answer should be your open.

Another trick: A common complaint from listeners is, “that the DJ/presenter/ host talks all about themselves all the time, it’s so boring.”  

But what do you do if you’re the personality and the show or podcast is ABOUT you, your life and experiences?

Here’s a fix:

Revise your mindset to make everything about what the listener GETS instead of what YOU have to give. Go personal, but not private. Try using the word YOU instead of Me, I or We or Us, or Let’s. Address one individual on air or in your podcast. See what happens.

Example:

“We have 5 sets of tickets to give away”….or

“You have 5 chances to win…”

OR

“We’ll be playing the entire live album next…”

“In a moment you can hear the whole live album.”   

For more from the Beyond Powerful Radio Quick Start Pages, here are Geller Media International’s Creating Powerful Communicator Principles:

DC:  If radio is long form programming and podcasting is short form programming, what are the essential values in both in 2025?

VG: Radio broadcasting is geared toward a broader mass audience.

Its immediate, and often local. You get what you get when you tune in at a given moment. Public airwaves also come with rules and regulations. Not so for on-demand podcasting which is another story, there’s more freedom and is niche formatted. Here you can go granular and target specific special interests and topics and create programming in areas that are maybe be too narrow for a general mass audience on over-the-air broadcast radio.

Podcasting is set up to garner specific special interests audience. It can be local, national or  international and create community. Another beautiful thing about podcasting is that you can actually see who is listening and for how long. So tracking analytics of podcasts make it easier in some ways to market and sell to advertisers and sponsors. They do different things.

But both mediums have their strengths, both are fantastic.

DC: With some broadcast schools closing their doors, where are we going to find and develop the next generation of on air talents, be it news, on air live shows or podcasting? What are some tips for those interested in a radio and podcasting career to get them on the right career path?

VG: When stations are hiring new people now they look at social media and social media followings. Self starter, people who create their own brands and develop a following based on their personalities.

Most music discovery is not coming from radio. It’s on Spotify. Audiences are on YouTube and most listen to radio online rather than over the air broadcast.

Can you demonstrate that you can build an audience?

Business culture has mentors and training programs. You’re not thrown in the pool and expected to learn to swim on your own. When I got into radio, at that time there were no books. Oh sure, you could find books on announcing, journalism techniques or how to use a microphone, but there was nothing on how to DO the job, navigate the waters to succeed at that job or how to grow an audience. So after working as a radio producer, reporter, news director, talk show host, and a PD, I began writing articles about what worked, to help others. Those collected articles became the book I wish someone had given to me.

DC:  Give us a few of your ‘aha moments’ that you’re most proud of in your media consulting career so far?

VG:  Not everyone can be a great communicator or storyteller, but ANYONE can become a BETTER one. The “aha” moments for me come each time I’m proven with results.  When I’ve worked with, discovered or trained a talent, someone unknown or unproven, and they learn these methods, if they do the work, and then achieve promise, often gaining success beyond our wildest expectations, my heart soars.

DC: What advice would you give a person interested in pursuing a career in radio or podcasting in 2025?

VG: Read the book. Then get in touch.

One bit of advice. Choose a career in radio like you’d choose a marriage partner. Don’t do it because you can live with it, do it because you can’t live without it.

If you podcast, understand, it’s a ton of hard work. The curse of both radio and podcasting is that since anyone can talk, it must be easy. It is not. If you’re not burning to do it, think twice.

DC: Who are some of the best radio personalities/performers on air now you’ve worked with that have reached a very high level as a communicator/personality.

VC: I work with programs and hosts and train news reporters in 42 countries, so this is a hard question. But the beauty of working over a length of time is the joy in watching the success trajectories of talent I as lucky enough to get to work with.  In the early days of LBC I trained UK personality James O’Brien, among others. I worked in South Africa with radi0 turned podcaster Cliff Central host Gareth Cliff.  In Australia, over the course of many years, was lucky to get to work with the ABC’s Robbie Buck, James Valentine, Spencer Howson, Angela Catterns and so many more, and the recently retired 702’s Richard Glover.

In America, I gave (TV The View’s) Joy Behar her first radio gig and worked with Phil Hendrie. And early in their careers in Canada I coached CBC Radio “Q” host Tom Power and his CBC producer Ann Mackeigan plus former CHFI Toronto, now podcast host Erin Davis. CHFI’s Michelle Butterly just celebrated 20 years on the station.

DC: Why is Joe Rogan so popular in your view?  Who are some of the other podcast performers doing well in this space?

VG: Joe Rogan is first and foremost a talented entertainer, with great instincts. He trusts that he can make what he finds interesting to the audience.

Powerful personalities listen to those instincts. Interested is interesting. There are no boring stories, only boring storytellers.

Great personalities are authentically themselves. Audiences feel they know them from listening, even if they’ve never met. All great personalities share that trait. 

Other traits include: a smart, curious mind, they’re likeable, good storytellers with wide ranging interests, well read, good listeners, have genuine passion, and most have a good sense of humor. They’re also hard workers and prep like crazy.

DC: With Donald Trump in the White House, how would you cover this President to achieve a fair and balanced outcome to his policies? Who in your view does the best job in the media at covering politics? Is fact checking passe or not to be missed for any reason?

VG: Fact checking is essential.

The LP Hartley quote has never been more true, “The past is a different country, we don’t live there anymore.” 

We are in an unprecedented time of technological shift, change and uncertainty.

Anyone can become a reporter. You’re already walking around with a mic, and a camera  in your pocket, so you can say anything, edit video, truth or fiction and all can post it on the internet. With AI in the mix it gets even more complicated. But it’s an even playing field.

Audiences have to sift through as they scroll and ask, is this true? Is it credible information, is it accurate?

Since you can no longer count on getting a balanced understanding of what is actually happening with an issue or event from just one source, it’s useful to find out and understand the motivation, agenda or perspective of the storyteller to avoid the danger of only getting one sided, “siloed” inaccurate or opinion driven perspectives. It’s important to know who is telling this story and where the material is coming from.

This marks a major media culture change from previously traditionally curated content. Former American news presenter journalist, now podcaster, Dan Rather used to end his CBS broadcasts with one word: “Courage.”

DC:  You’ve travelled the world teaching media’s best practices.  What are some of your favourite place to visit and why?

VG: It is the kindness and connections with the people you meet and work with, and share friendships with that ultimately makes the experience for me. More than work, or the places. It is humbling to know that this work is used in 42 countries. It’s been amazing going around the world teaching these techniques.

Each country has wonderful things. There have been life changing experiences working in both TV and radio in Africa.

Working with the ABC in Australia over the course of 12 years was gratifying in so many ways, I was in Newcastle with former triple j manager Linda Bracken. We looked out the window and a school of whales swam by. Beautiful Canada holds a special place in my heart as does the UK. And an unexpected Valentine came after speaking at the UN in Geneva. The lake, the stars at night. The fondue!

In Germany I was forced to create the structured Powerful Communicator model I work with today. The German teams I worked with asked for a specific step-by-step formula to the creative work so they could easily grasp it and then teach it to others.

That formula, written by hand on the back of a hotel room service menu at 3am, became the core of my work and the first book proposal, and gave me my international training career.

Being in the world reinforces human beings are people no matter where they live. It’s the one way to burst prejudice and preconceived idea, by getting to know people as individuals.

And there’s so much to experience. I’ve gotten to see the literal “end of the world” by the sea in Norway and the Viking ships in museums plus meet the poet laureate of Finland. Sweden holds a very special place for me. In Sweden, broadcaster Hakan Svendsen took me to dinner and said, “write a book.” When I asked “but who would ever buy it?” He said, “I would.” So I wrote it.

One of the languages the book is translated in is Turkish.

It was in Istanbul, Turkey I relearned a very important lesson, and one I hope our world will keep in mind:

People are not their governments.

Radio isn’t just a job in broadcasting for me. It’s so much more. It’s about life and it’s about people and human struggle, helping listeners get through their day. You never have to be alone. It’s holding up a mirror and reflecting life. And it is my passion and life’s work.

DC: What does Valerie Geller listen to on radio? Favourite personal podcasts?

VG:  So many. I’m a story junkie and I work in the story business. I listen to radio in the car mostly and download shows hosted by current clients. A lot of the podcasts I listen to, and this is subject to change daily, are those I’ve worked with, such as Morning Brew Daily or The New Yorker Political Hour, or In the Room with Peter Bergen.

I enjoy listening to Erin Davis and Lisa Brandt who host Gracefully and Frankly. If you’re an insomniac, Erin also hosts Drift designed to help people fall asleep. Actors Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Will Arnett host Smartless.

I like listening to a creative personality like Beyond Powerful Radio contributor Phil Hendrie, and am hooked on stories from This American Life, The Moth, New Yorker Fiction and Lemonada‘s Julia Louis Dreyfus‘s Wiser Than Me.

I check in with The Daily, Pod Save America and The Joe Rogan Experience. I’m leaving a bunch of them out, but I do try and listen to anything Mark Ramsey makes for Wondery.

I like listening to James Cridland and Sam Sethi‘s Podnews Weekly and radio personality, editor of Beyond Powerful Radio and friend Turi Ryder has a podcast, She Said What.  I recently had the honour of being one of the judges for the Australian Podcast Awards and was blown away at the quality of what people are doing. The majority of the entries were excellent.  I also hang out on TikTok and YouTube where its fun to check out new people, and happily go down the discovery rabbit hole.

Beyond Powerful Radio: An Audio Communicator’s Guide to the Digital World can be purchased here.


About the Author

Dave Charles, President Media RESULTS Inc. 

Mobile: +1 289 242 8313.

Email: [email protected]

www.mediaresults.ca 

 

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