“Working in Podcasting means constantly teaching other people about podcasting,” said Sarah Toporoff from Headliner in a podcast measurement and advertising session at Radiodays Europe.
Many companies have heard about podcasts and think they should do something, but don’t really know how to go about it, so Toporoff often finds herself teaching them what they need for a successful podcast, or, if they are advertisers, teaching them about podcast advertising styles.
Headliner has helped over 1.25 million creators promote their podcasts with strategies ranging from simple audiogram clips to full-length episodes. Toporoff’s tips in the RDE25 podcasting session included that if you are at the early stage of your podcast business “your competitors also have to be your collaborators.” Work with everyone to form alliances and swap information and promotions if her advice.
Measurement is one of the areas of collaboration that the whole podcast industry needs to improve, according to Toporoff. “We need consistent data to grow and monetise our business. We are competing with each other for audience, but we are competing with all media for advertising dollars.”
In the same session, Katia Sanerot from the French podcast production and publishing company Louie Media discussed how her company is using AI for language expansion. They have launched a new French podcast called Faut Que Je Te Dise (I Have To Tell You) and translated it into 9 other languages using AI.
On the topic of measurement she said: “Agencies asked how are the figures measured? We use two audience measurement methods in France – one ruled by publishers (circulation audit bureau), and IAB figures using data from the host servers with a one minute minimum threshold.”
In France, podcast measurement figures are published every month, only for shows that subscribe to the measurement service, but Sanerto believes the figures are not accurate enough. “There will be a new measurement method because the current methods are not accurate,” she said.
The Alliance pour les Chiffres de la Presse et des Média (ACPM) has been commissioned to deliver new measurement data.
“We were competing with radio listening which was measured also and got big numbers. Now we have selected ACPM because we have strong engagement with long listening and we were not being measured well for our format,” she said.
Data from the recently released first ACPM study shows high podcast awareness, with 94% of French people aware of podcasts. Podcast listening remains divided between native content and radio replays, with radio replays enjoying a slightly larger audience.
Two fifths of French people listen to podcasts, with 64% of them tuning in at least once a week. The appeal is particularly strong among 25-34 year olds and the smartphone is the preferred listening device. The average age of podcast listeners is 45 years and the majority of them are in the higher socio economic status category. 88% of listening is done in the home.
“We’re not selling the same engagement [as radio]. Five years on from the beginning of podcasting, the major players know the effectiveness of podcasting. The audio ads market is growing very fast,” she said.
In advice for advertisers Sanerot says: “Don’t put radio ads on podcasts, stop shouting at us. Develop ads for the more intimate podcast medium. Sponsoring a podcast with an appropriate message is better than just buying an ad.”
Max Franke from Germany’s Axel Springer Audio described how a traditional news publisher has branched out into podcasts.
As well as being a print publisher the company is also an investor in Wake Word, a podcast medium. “We are a house of content, but we back our gut feelings with data.”
Axel Springer is a transatlantic publishing house that employs over 18,000 people in 200 brands across the globe. The business aims to “shape the next chapter of the digital revolution in global media [by] building resilient, independent journalism businesses in Europe and the United States.”
The company developed Podius, a database of podcasts. It pulls data from all the worldwide charts and aggregates it to compare reach per episode or reach per month across world for an even podcast playing field.
Franke used the example of Welt’s German language podcast titled Aha, Altags-Wissen (Everyday Knowledge).
The original podcast was infrequent with long episodes. From Podius they learnt that frequent publishing was better, so they started a new youth podcast that published 3 times per week. The podcast now gets 100,000 listeners per episode.
“The beauty of podcasting is its low barrier to entry, but this has also created a lot of podcasts and a lot of competition,” said Franke. “The top podcasts are full with ads, but others are only at about 20% full.”
While the big podcast shows are performing well advertisers are still buying radio more than podcasts in Germany. “They are more inclined to go for radio because it is easier for them to buy and measure.” Franke says Podius is now being used by agencies to identify suitable podcasts in their campaign planning.
“Podius is not a buying tool it is just a planning tool. We launched in 2022, last year we got a value of $20 million in purchase plans. It takes a lot of effort away from media buyers and planners. Planners and buyers want us to professionalise and standardise our part of the audio industry,” he explained. Podius uses a paid subscription model.
“The more transparent data you have the more you can develop the market.”
Whatever the measurement figures, once those figures are public across all podcasts it “forces the conversation” about measurement of podcast numbers, which the panel members believed is a good thing.
Reporting: Steve Ahern at RadioDays Europe.